Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mishin

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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby cekoni » 12 Dec 2011, 02:14

lovplush wrote:... and Chan is fast enough to finish doing them although he might fall couple of times. So good jobs to Nichol and Chan. But that does not mean their programs are the most please to the eyes (hearts), especially when Chan falls all the time.

His Free program "Aranjuez" is very, very slow ... and by me - not so much difficult :plush34:

P.S. I agree with you about "beauty" of his programs :kli_ny: - his "presentation" and emotions is at the level of 12-year-old boy :ps_ih:
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby simona » 12 Dec 2011, 04:38


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cekoni wrote: his " presentation " and emotions
is at the level of 12 year old boy
:ps_ih:

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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby clairdelalune » 12 Dec 2011, 11:31

cekoni wrote:
lovplush wrote:... and Chan is fast enough to finish doing them although he might fall couple of times. So good jobs to Nichol and Chan. But that does not mean their programs are the most please to the eyes (hearts), especially when Chan falls all the time.

His Free program "Aranjuez" is very, very slow ... and by me - not so much difficult :plush34:

P.S. I agree with you about "beauty" of his programs :kli_ny: - his "presentation" and emotions is at the level of 12-year-old boy :ps_ih:


You have to watch him live, Chan is faster than anybody else. Aranjuez is indeed difficult, that´s why he falls so much, the entries on the jumps are very difficult. :a_g_a:
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby lovplush » 12 Dec 2011, 11:49

clairdelalune wrote:
cekoni wrote:
lovplush wrote:... and Chan is fast enough to finish doing them although he might fall couple of times. So good jobs to Nichol and Chan. But that does not mean their programs are the most please to the eyes (hearts), especially when Chan falls all the time.

His Free program "Aranjuez" is very, very slow ... and by me - not so much difficult :plush34:

P.S. I agree with you about "beauty" of his programs :kli_ny: - his "presentation" and emotions is at the level of 12-year-old boy :ps_ih:


You have to watch him live, Chan is faster than anybody else. Aranjuez is indeed difficult, that´s why he falls so much, the entries on the jumps are very difficult. :a_g_a:


I watch him online at GPF for his SP. He is fast and the edges etc. are very good. But this is not only speed skating, this is performing art on ice too. I repeat, Chan is a GREAT skater as Plushy also once said. I know couple of friends watched him live are also impressed about his skating speed. But that does not mean his program is piece of art. It is COP GREAT program, that is all.
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby clairdelalune » 12 Dec 2011, 12:33

lovplush wrote:I watch him online at GPF for his SP. He is fast and the edges etc. are very good. But this is not only speed skating, this is performing art on ice too. I repeat, Chan is a GREAT skater as Plushy also once said. I know couple of friends watched him live are also impressed about his skating speed. But that does not mean his program is piece of art. It is COP GREAT program, that is all.


Of course it´s not a piece of art. :co_ol: Judges don´t care about art, they are mad about speed, deep edges, transitions. If you have these, why bother, art is subjective anyway. :plush34:
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby lala630312 » 12 Dec 2011, 12:42

cekoni wrote:
P.S. I agree with you about "beauty" of his programs :kli_ny: - his "presentation" and emotions is at the level of 12-year-old boy



I think, Chan is like a Swiss watch. Accurate, perfect, but no emotion. :plush34:

P.S.: "perfect" -except, when he fall :)-(:

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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby simona » 12 Dec 2011, 15:38


:a_g_a:

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lala630312 wrote:
I think, Chan is like a Swiss watch. Accurate,
perfect, but no emotion.
:plush34:
P.S.: " perfect " -except, when he falls :)-(:





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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby whitebamboo » 12 Dec 2011, 17:21

lovplush wrote:
clairdelalune wrote:
You have to watch him live, Chan is faster than anybody else. Aranjuez is indeed difficult, that´s why he falls so much, the entries on the jumps are very difficult. :a_g_a:


I watch him online at GPF for his SP. He is fast and the edges etc. are very good. But this is not only speed skating, this is performing art on ice too. I repeat, Chan is a GREAT skater as Plushy also once said. I know couple of friends watched him live are also impressed about his skating speed. But that does not mean his program is piece of art. It is COP GREAT program, that is all.


Chan does have great speed and edges (again, when he doesn't lose control of it) and is indeed a very remarkable skater, and Aranjuez is a very difficult program. But in a way, to say "he falls so much because it's so difficult" is just another way of saying "it's beyond his abilities", and in my opinion should not be used as a justification for not penalizing him for the falls (in the sense of for instance PCS, when other skaters are penalized when they fall). And I think all the talk about the difficulty of his programs is somewhat moot, because so far this season, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to actually skate it through cleanly. Maybe he'll manage it later in the season, but until then, he should be evaluated based on what he actually manages to do, and not on the theoretical level of difficulty of his programs.

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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby clairdelalune » 12 Dec 2011, 17:31

whitebamboo wrote:
lovplush wrote:
clairdelalune wrote:
You have to watch him live, Chan is faster than anybody else. Aranjuez is indeed difficult, that´s why he falls so much, the entries on the jumps are very difficult. :a_g_a:


I watch him online at GPF for his SP. He is fast and the edges etc. are very good. But this is not only speed skating, this is performing art on ice too. I repeat, Chan is a GREAT skater as Plushy also once said. I know couple of friends watched him live are also impressed about his skating speed. But that does not mean his program is piece of art. It is COP GREAT program, that is all.


Chan does have great speed and edges (again, when he doesn't lose control of it) and is indeed a very remarkable skater, and Aranjuez is a very difficult program. But in a way, to say "he falls so much because it's so difficult" is just another way of saying "it's beyond his abilities", and in my opinion should not be used as a justification for not penalizing him for the falls. And I think all the talk about the difficulty of his programs is somewhat moot, because so far this season, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to actually skate it through cleanly. Maybe he'll manage it later in the season, but until then, he should be evaluated based on what he actually manages to do, and not on the theoretical level of difficulty of his programs.


Exactly! The program is beyond his abilities, but due to the huge margin between him and the other skaters, he didn´t change anything. Watch the entry into the 3Lz, he fell twice on that jump (Japan Open and GPF), yet, I believe he´ll keep it. No matter how many mistakes he does on jumps, the PCS will save him. His philosophy is sacrifice the jumps but save the transitions, which I think is a smart approach.
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

Postby lala630312 » 12 Dec 2011, 18:31

clairdelalune:
Exactly! The program is beyond his abilities, but due to the huge margin between him and the other skaters, he didn´t change anything. Watch the entry into the 3Lz, he fell twice on that jump (Japan Open and GPF), yet, I believe he´ll keep it. No matter how many mistakes he does on jumps, the PCS will save him. His philosophy is sacrifice the jumps but save the transitions, which I think is a smart approach.


I don't agree. Many people like the jumps, the jumps are beautiful, and risky. Let's look into the future. Many young skaters will learn to skate like Chan, because it exercise an early age. They learn that the jumps are not as important. What will happen in the races? The races will be boring. The best figure skater should know the most difficult jumps, and be able to show the tournaments. This is not icedance. I'm sure that if it happens,I won't watch the figure skating. I have a question: When was the figure skating most popular? Not today....

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