Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.12.11

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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby whitebamboo » 29 Dec 2011, 07:04

So happy that our Plushy is back! plush48 plush48 Of course he's still far from his top condition and the jumps are not all perfect yet, but remember everything that has happened this year, how only three months ago some "medical expert" nearly destroyed his knee with his botched injection, and how he was still in rehab by late September, how he only began to get his quad back a few days before the competition started....I can only agree with Tarasova, "this is a phenomeon".

I have been watching the SP a few more times, and I love the music for it more and moe, especially the fact that the first part is so different from the second. The spins and footwork are better than before and have new elements to them. Their levels still can be increased, but from what Plushy said after the competition, I believe this will happen. (One thing I want to mention is that I remember in an old interview, from maybe 05 or 06, Plushy once said that he felt serpentine sequences were under-appreciated under the new COP system, and he would like to see elements of it more in programs.)

I have seen some people criticize this program for having all three jumps in the first part. It is true that nowadays, it's considered "better" to have everything "spaced out evenly" in programs. So maybe this is a technical flaw, but I am starting to think that "evenness" is not necessarily the right thing for this particular program, if only from an artistic point of view (though I don't know how much "art" is worth in judges' eyes). It seems to me the climax of the program, the actual "storm", is still in the second part, in the footwork sequence, so to me, the program does not feel front-loaded.

Perhaps I am over-interpreting things, but if we really see the program as a storm, then there is a difference between how it feels before the storm--the sense of pressure and heaviness in the air, the rising wind, the feeling of expectation. Then the real storm comes in an outburst of fury and passion, and the tension is released. To my own ears, I think something of this is reflected in the music for the program. So maybe it makes sense that the first part of the program is so different from the second part, in terms of the types of elements it contains, and in terms of rhythm and feeling. And jumps (including the long strokes leading up to them) have a different rhythm compared to spins and footwork. What I am vaguely feeling is that while having all three jumps in the first part is generally considered a flaw in a SP program, it can be argued that in this case, there is a certain aesthetic justification for it, which I actually find extremely interesting.

Of course, I don't want to interpret any of Plushy's programs too literally. Again, this is probably just my own mind making things up, but such themes and feelings remind me of the "Sturm und Drang"--Storm and Stress--of Romanticism. Performance-wise, I get the sense Plushy is also not yet at 100%: after all, he himself said how he needed to overcome the big psychological barrier of competing again. But the beauty of his movements, the aristocratic aura, and the sense of passion are in full force alreay And of course, the combination of grace and power, and also of charisma.

If I were to nitpick the SP performace, based on nothing but my personal notions and tastes, maybe I could even say that possibly there was actually a little bit too much charisma for this program. Partly this was from comparison with the practice video from before the SP, but somehow I get the suspicion that the blown kiss before the step sequence was not actually in the choreography.... ::yaz-yk: And he also replaced the ending pose with a fist pump and another blown kiss. I am of two minds about it. On one hand it is clear that Plushy was just returning again for the first time, he was in love with competition and the audience and he's happy, and that makes me happy. On the other hand, I got the sense it did "break character" somewhat, and just for my own tastes, I felt it broke the tension a little. Just for this particular program, I wonder what it would look like if he made it a little more...not colder exactly, but a little more alone, perhaps. (Of course, I am not saying he should do things one way or another, or that others need to interpret things similarly as me. I am absolutely certain that every artistic choice he makes is his own. But I am a bit curious.)

Once again, I apologize for yet another terribly long post....I know all of this nonsense--based on no more than my own overactive imagination--do not necessarily make it fit into the strict mold of the likes of Lori Nichol would consider a "good" program, but somehow I can't help going on about it....(as usual)

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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby simona » 29 Dec 2011, 07:44


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whitebamboo wrote:Once again, I apologize for yet another terribly long post....

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:plush33: Please whitebamboo (so love your nickname!) don't apologize!
I read everything in a jiffy and your 'impressions' largely match mine!




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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby lovplush » 29 Dec 2011, 07:56

whitebamboo wrote:
I have been watching the SP a few more times, and I love the music for it more and moe, especially the fact that the first part is so different from the second. The spins and footwork are better than before and have new elements to them. Their levels still can be increased, but from what Plushy said after the competition, I believe this will happen. (One thing I want to mention is that I remember in an old interview, from maybe 05 or 06, Plushy once said that he felt serpentine sequences were under-appreciated under the new COP system, and he would like to see elements of it more in programs.)

I have seen some people criticize this program for having all three jumps in the first part. It is true that nowadays, it's considered "better" to have everything "spaced out evenly" in programs. So maybe this is a technical flaw, but I am starting to think that "evenness" is not necessarily the right thing for this particular program, if only from an artistic point of view (though I don't know how much "art" is worth in judges' eyes). It seems to me the climax of the program, the actual "storm", is still in the second part, in the footwork sequence, so to me, the program does not feel front-loaded.

......


If I were to nitpick the SP performace, based on nothing but my personal notions and tastes, maybe I could even say that possibly there was actually a little bit too much charisma for this program. Partly this was from comparison with the practice video from before the SP, but somehow I get the suspicion that the blown kiss before the step sequence was not actually in the choreography.... ::yaz-yk: And he also replaced the ending pose with a fist pump and another blown kiss. I am of two minds about it. On one hand it is clear that Plushy was just returning again for the first time, he was in love with competition and the audience and he's happy, and that makes me happy. On the other hand, I got the sense it did "break character" somewhat, and just for my own tastes, I felt it broke the tension a little. Just for this particular program, I wonder what it would look like if he made it a little more...not colder exactly, but a little more alone, perhaps. (Of course, I am not saying he should do things one way or another, or that others need to interpret things similarly as me. I am absolutely certain that every artistic choice he makes is his own. But I am a bit curious.)



I will be waiting for your analysis on the LP :-)

As for the jump arrangement I was a bit worried since this is not the ISU new trend style, and yes the judges would never consider whether this is appreciated for particular program or not. The flaw of the COP system is that everything is defined so clearly that there is limited room for creativity. As for artistry, you can only develop some artistry under the restricted frame. Shame!! On the other hand, I agree with you 100% that this program is not front loaded. The steps and spins match the remaining part very well. Plushy has improved his steps and spins a lot :bra_vo: He still has speed problem with the sit-spins which is the part I think is a bit out of the music.

For the blowing kisses secenes, I guess he felt relatively at home while competing at RN, so he can afford to show his gratitute to his supporters. In LP he was more serious :hi_hi_hi: But I do hope that when he competes at Euros, he would not do that :hi_hi_hi:
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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby let`s talk » 29 Dec 2011, 11:09

Таня wrote:У Жени триксель стал какой-то другой :co_ol:

Он выглядит как двойной. Типа так, между прочем.
"Осторожно! Фанатка ЕП и ДТ" (weir.ru about let`s talk)
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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby let`s talk » 29 Dec 2011, 11:17

dimi wrote:Excuse me Clairedelune but awful is a very cruel word, at least in his forum I d like more respect cause I m already reading shitty stuff in other forums.

Действительно, хотелось бы чтобы хотя бы на его официальном фанатском форуме гадостей о нём поменьше было. Богаделен разноязычных в интеренет много, есть где высказаться. Хотя я слегка удивлена, что вони не так много, как я честно говоря ожидала. Люди увидели то, что есть: никто не делал до него то, что он делает. Да и gut с balls не хватить, что у Чана, да и Дая, катать в 29 лет то, что Плющ может. Вот люди и притихли. ::yaz-yk:
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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby dustman » 29 Dec 2011, 12:11

Олимпийский чемпион Евгений Плющенко собирается выступить на первенстве по фигурному катанию
http://www.1tv.ru/news/sport/195334

this video, there is video of the medal ceremony :mi_ga_et:

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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby dimi » 29 Dec 2011, 12:36

Whitebamboo that is a great post!

Regarding frontloading 3 jumps in sp : Fernandez, Rippon, Brezina, Miner and Song are among the skaters doing 3 jumps back to back, so when you see people talking about Plush froantloading, bookmark this and tell them!
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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby Rika » 29 Dec 2011, 13:32

I know Plushenko's fans and I don't want to fight with anyone (I admire Plushenko and imo he was the best ever...), but I can't keep silence, then his short program.

I'm asking at myself if his coreographer is sleeping or what else...
Plushenko's short program seems an exibition and not a good exibition: what does he do in his coreography? Imo the coreography doesn't exist and he do his typical movements (kisses and other stuff) for the audience.
So... I can understand a program like this when he skates in exibition, but who declares (like me) Patrick Chan's lack in the coreography, is now disappointed by Plushenko's short program: a big skater like Plushenko can does more, more better than kisses and winks. Suppose a person who doesn't know Plushenko (because he isn't intressed in figure skating), can he/she to cheer, to scream and to excited for Evgeny? No. This is the answer.
And I'm writting all this because some ages ago, Plushenko was able to fascinate all the world (who doesn't know what figure skate is too!) not only his fans, and this was his biggest magic...
but I can't see it anymore. I can't belive it's so hard to find a good coreography for Plushenko: he can does all, really all... so, why only kisses and winks? What is his corepgrapher doing? He is afraid to say to Plushenko: "Do this and this and not this?"
Ok, Plushenko can be the best, but the scores speak clear: at the Worlds it will be head-to-head with Chan, why does he present a coreography lower like this?

What's the problem? Plushenko belives the fans don't cheer and excite if he doesn't send kisses?
For me, it's the opposite.
Anyway, maybe Plushenko want to thank his fans for their support... so, he needs only to skate and to show this in his eyes, nothing else to be unforgettable.
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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby dimi » 29 Dec 2011, 14:03

I believe he will use choreographers like Arthur and Liza have done, in the seasons heading to Sochi. Thats my hope anyway. In the past i was hoping to see him wearing blue costume and my wish was heard 12 years after! :plush46: He cant change his style of skating but I m hoping for Camerlego as choreographer to kick ass, I believe he can understand Evgeni cause he got the bestof Daisuke too. And please girls who see him often tell him repeatdly that, or Tom Dickson, Zhulin was great too but he didnt like the programa and I dont know why we saw it only once . Also in Mack the knife he showed me his jazzy face-one more program that he didnt repeat.
For first appearance he was more than great though, me I like his new programs more than Vancouver! :son-ce:
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Re: Чемпионат России 2012 || Russian Nationals 2012, 24-28.1

Postby clairdelalune » 29 Dec 2011, 14:26

No exhibition videos???? :is_te_ri_ka: :ne_vi_del:
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