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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic




Yes, i found this link on FSU - but do not be angry, there no one has even thought to talking nonsense, or "doubted" about Plushy's surgery :plush45: .... unlike of corrupted enviable fools on russian sites and forums (even and Zhurankov thanked to FSO for their support :kli_ny: - they would support and devil, if he is against Plushy) :plush43: :ze_le_ny: - pity, because ofc, Plushy more concerned about the opinion of russians :plush34:

I bring up voodoo thing is because just a moment ago i found one poster on GS expressing hints of media stunt from Plushy team :kli_ny: . Of course he/she does not doubt the surgery itself, but it still makes me angry. He/she must be a saint at this difficult time to withdraw a low blow because he/she is of sympathy of Plushy :ze_le_ny: .

But indeed, on these forum at least they do not doubt about the surgery. :plush34:

Media stunt my a**!!! (Sorry, pardon my language.) Yes, I can see some people sitting behind their computers and offering their "critiques". To them, so what you are insulted, attacked, accused of being a fraud on national TV and during a major figure skating competition--as long as it's not happening to themselves--but God forbids that you actually dare to speak up for yourself and defend yourself! Why, it's not classy ! It's the same nonsense after Vancouver, I saw even some people who admitted that "yes, Plushenko should have won", but they still thought he was an arrogant (deleted epithet) for questioning the result, even though they could agree that he was actually right. What was their logic? Why, it's not classy !

But in fact, some people have no idea of what is true class, what is right and significant. It breaks my heart to see Evgeni these last days, again and again talking about his honor and his dignity and his dream, because he might as well be speaking into the wind. They don't understand it, so they judge him according to the size of their own minds and hearts. They can't understand. There is no so notion in their minds and you won't be able to get such notions into their minds. What is so important to Evgeni is just so far beyond their ability to comprehend, it's quite hopeless. But maybe that's the way it is.

Well, anyway. I am sorry. I feel kind of emo right now...I guess, it's true that at least on FSU and GS they don't question the reality of the surgery itself, because they at least know it is absolutely ridiculous. But I just don't understand some people on the Russian internet. I guess, I didn't quite understand exactly what Cekoni was saying--so this Zhurankov is even thanking his supporters? That just makes me sick at heart.

Sorry...I wanted to also ask about one of the NTV excerpts, the first one, with Dr. Pekarsky, since I could only read google translate of what was written. What he said was absolutely terrifying to me, and I just wanted to ask...Did I understand it right?
by whitebamboo
17 Feb 2013, 05:32
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

I've been seeing people going on about "freedom of speech", and somehow interpreting it to say that Zhurankov can say whatever he wanted on his broadcast with no consequences. This also irritates me hugely: it just seems to be based on a complete (and perhaps willful) ignorance of how freedom of speech works.

I also do not know much about laws regarding freedom of speech and defamation, in Russia or in other parts of the world, but even a basic googling and a mere look at wikipedia has told me that almost in every country, freedom of speech is not completely unrestricted. These restrictions are recognized by the United Nations, among other things. In the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, it was recognized that freedom of speech are "subject to certain restrictions" when necessary, and one recognized reason for such restrictions is "respect of the rights or reputation of others".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Another wikipedia article, that on defamation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
This article does not specifically include Russian laws, but it gives an overview of the generally recognized nature of defamation/slander/libel, and laws regarding defamation in many countries. I would like to suggest that people take a quick glance at it, if they can. In particular, it mentions that in the same International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as above, it is stated that


1. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.
2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.


I do want to mention that there are people who believe that defamation should not be criminalized (as opposed to a matter for the civil courts), or that such criminal defamation laws should be restricted. However, in many countries other than Russia, including including many "Western" ones, such countries in Western Europe, in Canada and states of the U. S., defamation is a crime, and in many of these countries, it is punishable by stronger sentences than what, as I understand it, can be dealt out to Zhurnakov if he is found guilty. (In Russia, as I understood it, please correct me if I am wrong, defamation was for a while only a civil matter, but was returned to being a part of the criminal code last year.)

I do not know what are the current Russian laws and principles--in terms of standards of proving defamation--that Plushy's lawyer has to work with. The wikipedia article discussed some general principles, including for instance in the U. S.(which, apparently, is generally and roughly speaking more friendly to the defendant in such cases, compared to most places in Europe). It seemed to me that even under those standards, this would probably be a case that is fairly favorable to Plushy, given what Zhurankov said both during the broadcast and later, the way he said them, and the situation (on national television, in the capacity as a commentator) in which he said them, etc.

Sorry again fro this rambling post...I guess, I wanted to mention these things in response to those people who are throwing the phrase "freedom of speech" around without understanding what it means. Of course, I am a complete lay person when it comes to law, but it seems that one ends up learning all sorts of knowledge from being a Plushy fan, even if only in a cursory manner... :-) Basically, I feel that to associate this case with whatever opinions one holds about "the state of freedom of speech in Russia" is both illogical and without any basis in facts, and to suggest that Plushy is somehow "trying to restrict Zhurankov's freedom of speech" is a complete misrepresentation, and utterly ignorant.
by whitebamboo
18 Feb 2013, 02:40
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

... I wanted to mention these things in response to those people who are throwing the phrase "freedom of speech" around without understanding what it means. Of course, I am a complete lay person when it comes to law, but it seems that one ends up learning all sorts of knowledge from being a Plushy fan, even if only in a cursory manner... :-) Basically, I feel that to associate this case with whatever opinions one holds about "the state of freedom of speech in Russia" is both illogical and without any basis in facts, and to suggest that Plushy is somehow "trying to restrict Zhurankov's freedom of speech" is a complete misrepresentation, and utterly ignorant.
Did you read my conversation on twitter? :hi_hi_hi:

Well, partly :-): But I also saw people throwing the phrase around in other places, too. :plush43:


Anyway, how much i can see, the biggest problem with the understanding of "freedom of speech" is in countries that have not had it - and now they do not realize, where are boundaries - they exist, and they are very well defined in countries that live long in a "democracy" :plush34:


I think what you say is part of the problem, but I saw plenty of people from "Western" countries make this ridiculous fallacy, too, when it comes to Plushy...I think another part of is that some people simply like to interpret "freedom of speech" (and many other things in the world, for that matter) in ways that are convenient to whatever purposes they happen to hold at the moment, never mind logic or consistency :ps_ih:

I think Mishin said it best: Plushy is trying to push the boundaries of what is possible, and pioneers like that are often subject to criticism, attack and ridicule, simply because they are not understood. It reminds me a little of a parable by Zhuangzi, an ancient Chinese philosopher, who tells of a great mythical bird called the Peng, who arises in the far north. His wings span hundreds of miles, he soars thousands of miles above the earth, and flies tens of thousands of miles to the far south. But as he passes overhead, the little sparrows and insects in the courtyard point and laugh at him, saying: "We can only get to this tree branch or that one in the yard, that's how far one can fly, how can he presume to go tens of thousands of miles! How ridiculous!"
by whitebamboo
19 Feb 2013, 20:00
 
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Re: Другие интересные новости || Other interesting news

Due Worlds 2013 Men results...

@JohnnyGWeir:
https://twitter.com/JohnnyGWeir/status/312739591490768897

This judging is ridiculous and the only reason people buy it is because it's in North America. Imagine the outcry if it were Russia+Plush!?

--------------

@missklovatt:
I don't always agree with JWeir, but he's definitely right. If this was Plushenko in Russia, the complaints would be deafening. #fsworlds13

@itshelene:
Who bets Plushenko is sitting at home thinking, "I can easily beat all these guys even with my artificial knees and discs." #FSWorld13

@TelmoFe:
Now I believe Plushenko can wins Olympics not because he's good enough,because the socres system is a shit and it'l be in Russia #FSWorlds13


I have to say that to be honest, I am a little irritated that quite a number of skating fans are talking about "OMG the Olympics are going to be in Russia and the Russian skaters are going to be sooooo overscored" right now. In effect, it seems to be preemptively setting up any possible good results by Russian skaters (including and maybe especially Plushy), which hasn't happened yet, as "unfair"--nearly a year in advance. Maybe I'm biased, but I can't help but wonder if it is not being used by some to distract from the judging controversies that have actually occurred.

And as for Plushy, at this point frankly I"ll be glad if the judges don't try to push him down as a representative of the "old" again, and if there is a bit less of an attack campaign on the part of the NA press....(though I kinda doubt it, given the way some of them have been writing)
by whitebamboo
16 Mar 2013, 18:44
 
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Re: Другие интересные новости || Other interesting news


On the one hand, it is good if anyone can manage to change something in the present state of "worshiping of Chan's" :a_g_a:

... but I highly doubt in the "pure motives" of those who are now revolting against - they only wants an "inflation" to replace with inflation of some other skater. :plush34: Because, why would American FS experts (media) JUST now noticed "Chanflation"? :kli_ny:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2013/03/16/patrick-chan-figure-skating-world-championships/1992075/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0316-hersh-world-figure-skating-20130316,0,3288346.story
http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-world-figure-skating-20130316,0,1317759.story
http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/03/what-great-mens-championship-at-2013.html
http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-worlds-the-plight-and-misuse-of-program-components
...
Maybe because now he won over skater, whom trains an American coach - Frank Carroll? :)-(:

Where was their "sense of justice", when Plushy received embarrassingly low scores for his SP at the Olympics in Vancouver, and as the result - Lysacek managed to beat him in the end?! :plush43:
... Oh, what a coincidence - his coach was ALSO Frank Carroll! :ps_ih:

Anyway - "Sochi campaign" has already begun.... :plush34:

Yes, I agree with this completely.

I don't follow the NA experts you linked to very much, but from what I've seen, I think personally I have the most respect for Jackie Wong, who I think is generally reasonable, and there are a number of things I agree with him about, such as the COP's problem of not addressing the difficulty of combination jumps (though I have some reservations about his understanding of "art"). Christine Brennan only a few days ago wrote a quite nasty and ill-informed piece about how Russian skaters are going to be overscored due to politics at Sochi (including more of the usual Plushy bashing re Vancouver and the so-called "Platinum medal" business). I have to say I don't know much about her, but just this piece seemed to be on a par with some of DiManno's work, if you know what I mean. With Tony Wheeler, I remember having a brief conversation with him a long time ago at LJ, which arose out of an article of his regarding one of Chan's multiple-falls wins. To his credit, he was not defending it, but at the same time he implicitly (or maybe not so implicitly) blamed Plushy and his supporters for it happening--because Plushy argued for the importance of the quad and the increase of its value, and somehow that led to Chan winning with several falls...I asked him some questions, and to be honest, I ended up being not very impressed with the logic of his answers. And Phil Hersh, again I must say that I don't read many of his articles, perhaps that's the reason why most of things I read from him seemed like proxy pieces for Frank Carroll...

(Sorry, I've been feeling a bit vicious the last few days.. :ps_ih: :ps_ih: )

But even with this rant, I agree with them about this particular result of this World Championships...
by whitebamboo
17 Mar 2013, 05:35
 
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Re: Женя в Твиттере & ВКонтакте || Evgeni at Twitter & VKont

@EvgeniPlushenko:

Сейчас лечу за бугор играть в гольф! https://twitter.com/EvgeniPlushenko/status/314287185262170112
Now I'm flying over the hill to play golf!


I agree with and loved everything he said about the Worlds, but when he mentioned golf I got worried again...I do hope he is careful, and if he really has to swing, to do it correctly and not too hard! Maybe I am just naturally a person that worries too much, but apparently one can also injure one's lower back with golf. Some professional golfers even had the same kind of surgery as he had. I wonder if it would be best if in addition to doctors and therapists, he also consults some golf experts about whether it is okay to do golf, since I don't know if even the best doctors and therapists can possibly know about every sport and how it impacts the body...

Sorry, I suppose maybe I'm getting nervous over nothing again...But surely it can't hurt to be too careful!
by whitebamboo
20 Mar 2013, 20:18
 
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Re: Женя в Твиттере & ВКонтакте || Evgeni at Twitter & VKont



Articles about Plushy's "statement"...

Плющенко заявил, что все спонсоры по-прежнему его поддерживают:
http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130329/653720674.html

Plushenko Denies Reports Sponsors Have Left Amid Scandal:
http://en.rsport.ru/other_sports/20130329/653749430.html

I can't gauge the tone of Russian language news reports, but can I just ask, what's the deal with en.rsport.ru? Quite a few of their English language articles about Plushy seemed to me to be in tones that were kind of snide and antagonistic. Maybe it's just me being over-sensitive again, but seriously, if I haven't seen the "ru" domain name, I certainly would have mistaken it to be one of the nastier NA media: the things they say were (mostly) factual, but they use all these little tricks standard to NA journalism, for instance a subtle word choice here, an omission there...

For instance, right after the SP in Zagreb, they were the ones who came up with the story that he was "in tears" in the K&C (which I'm fairly sure was in fact factually false) "after an erratic performance", without at first saying a single word about his injuries, which I would have thought is the most relevant piece of information at that point (though it was mentioned in an addition to the article later). Recently, they reported Plushy's tweets about the results of the Worlds, which merely expressed similar opinions as many others, and made a big deal out of it, saying that he "attacked" Chan's win. (In comparison, for instance Lynn Rutherford used the more neutral "criticized" in her more recent article.) And now their article about this latest nonsense irritated me again. This one seems to be on the surface all factual, but the way the chose to spin it, for instance


...Evgeny Plushenko is denying reports spread by his wife that he has lost sponsors...


No, the reports were not spread by "his wife", but by the journalist who wrote the original report, and who either made up or misinterpreted whatever Yana might or might not have said. Perhaps I can imagine a scenario where Yana might have said something like " if Zhurankov's words were widely believed by people, it can cause Plushenko to lose sponsors"... And later in the article, they stated, presenting it as an actual fact, that Yana said he lost sponsors. What are they trying to do, suggest there's a conflict between Plushy and Yana? :plush43:

And the title of their report itself:

Plushenko Denies Reports Sponsors Have Left Amid Scandal


What scandal, may I ask? What they are trying to do is to actually create the impression that Plushy is somehow entangled in some "scandal", I think. And the words they use, "deny", "insist": they may seem synonymous to mere "say", but I think somehow in the way they get used in English these days, they still suggest--by connotation--that maybe there's something to all these accusations, and that he's just trying to cover it up...

(Sorry, I got picky about the press again. But now I seem to remember, isn't Ms. E. V. also at rsport.ru? (although writing in Russian) Or perhaps I remembered wrong?)

Edit: BTW, I just gritted my teeth and checked this en.rsport.ru article again, to make certain. Indeed, they omitted the fact that the original sovsport.ru article has been deleted/retracted.

Edit again: come to think of it,the whole business essentially is that some other journalist miswrote or invented some words by Yana, and Plushy wrote to clarify/correct this (see? two other words they could have used instead of "deny"!) Why is it worthy of a news article at all, anyway? If you ask me, frankly I think by writing "Plushenko denied XYZ happened", they are really trying to create the impression in the readers minds that "XYZ happened", that's their real point...
by whitebamboo
29 Mar 2013, 22:42
 
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Re: Женя “вне льда” (cтатьи,фото,видео)|| Evgeni OFF the ice

если эта статья уже была, просто удалите мое сообщение)

http://www.klaxon.ru/archivepaper/StatNum.php?ELEMENT_ID=11219
Клаксон № 6 (518) 2013 год

....

– Ее тоже подарили родителям?
– Нет, уже сам ездил за рулем. А папа всегда сидел рядом. Сопровождал. До тех пор, пока мне не исполнилось восемнадцать. Тогда я начал часто менять машины, пробовал почти все известные марки и модели. В то время ездил довольно агрессивно, нередко играл на дороге “в шашки”. Покупал и спортивные автомобили. Мой личный рекорд скорости, установленный за рулем “Maserati” на Кольцевой дороге Петербурга, – 270 км/час. Только не подумайте, что я был “всадником без головы”. Совсем наоборот. Никогда не подвергал риску ни себя, ни окружающих. Ездил быстро, но всегда предельно аккуратно. Даже специально прошел курсы экстремального вождения, чтобы в любой ситуации не терять контроль над машиной. В какой-то момент в моем гараже набралось семь автомобилей. Не на всех успевал ездить. Поэтому пришлось часть распродать. Затем увлекся мотоциклами...

....



:plush44: I really, really hope Evgeni does not do such things on the road anymore... :-( Seriously, it's awfully dangerous, even if he says he was very careful. Because everybody always think they're careful enough!
by whitebamboo
10 Apr 2013, 16:16
 
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Re: Мужчины || Men


Since it is an article from Dimanno, the contents probably has been twisted a bit (especially regarding Menshov's injury). However, Chan did his own hater's work by saying all these negative stuff about WTT. I really cannot recall any Chan's interviews which sound not self-centered and arrogant :plush34: . He is really something :plush44: .

Personally, it's fine with me if he says that he himself didn't want to go to WTT, or that ISU exploits skaters (which is true to a large extent). But to call it a "stupid competition" is insulting not only to the ISU (which I confess I don't care that much about), but also to the audience. And, I know skaters have said all sorts of things, but frankly I don't ever recall anyone else calling their teammates "bottom of the food chain" before...

But actually, what bothers me more is that he seems to be saying that "a lot of Russian and Chinese skaters" pretended injuries to avoid WTT. I am curious as to what this "a lot" consists of.

But then again, I suppose it's a DiManno article...I really think this woman just hates figure skating (to put it mildly).
by whitebamboo
23 Apr 2013, 16:41
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

After this short sentence, we had long discussion on twitter with author, and other journalists (who, of course, defended the "right of his colleague") ... to write any nonsense ::yaz-yk:
Her statement is not so bad (what we have already read), but it really baseless, almost dumb :ps_ih:

Part II: Icenetwork.com picks faves from 2012-13
By Lynn Rutherford,...:
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130424&content_id=45692396&vkey=ice_news

Biggest disappointment:
....
Close second: If the great Evgeni Plushenko was so injured, he should have stepped aside and let Konstantin Menshov compete at the 2013 European Figure Skating Championships.

Here are just final response of our whitebamboo :plush39: .... maybe she will give us "text" version :mi_ga_et:

https://twitter.com/alena_hu/status/330155280585351170/photo/1

*blushes* Here was what I said on twitter to her:


My regrets in advance for any possible offense, Ms. Rutherford, I certainly do not mean the following personally, but herely in regard to your specific words on this occasion. This is bait-and-switch: in the article it was all about how Plushenko should've "stepped aside and let Menshov skate. So I believe a normal reader can only interpret it (and your later comments) to mean that your disappointment was not in his performance, but that it wasn't "gracious" that he did not do so.

Whether Plushenko himself at Euros was disappointing or not, imho it is presumptuous for a third party to suggest any athlete didn't need to try, or shouldn't, just because he has 7 or whatever number of titles, and then criticize him for trying ("I was a bit critical"). And it's hypocritical in this case to talk about how it would've been "gracious", given that it was not Plushenko who took away Menshov's spot. One could argue--in safe retrospect--whether it was the correct decision for Plushenko to go to the Euros for his own sake , but as he earned his spot as RN champion, I believe this is the only legitimate context in which the question can be discussed. Menshov not being able to go to the Euros this year might be an injustice, but it had nothing to do with Plushenko.

I'd like to mention a quote from Alexei Mishin, who said there are extraordinary people who "overcome themselves for the discovery of new opportunities". On other occasions, he said that what Plushenko is trying to do is to "open a window into the unknown"--in the sense of expanding what is considered humanly possible. This is why your statement that he has 7 European titles and therefore "doesn't need to suffer so to try for 8" comes across so jarringly to me, Ms. Rutherford. Yes, it is extraordinarily difficult for him, and fans like me worry constantly about his injuries and his pain. Nevertheless, to me (and I believe also to many others), sportsmanship is about the need to try and fight. It is about opening windows into the unknown. It is about Citius, Altius, Fortius , which is still the Olympic motto, instead of "graciously stepping aside". I believe these things are indeed a large part of the purpose of sport, and a large part of why it is inspirational for so many. And as a Plushenko fan, I do quote these words above with (however vicarious) pride, because I believe that through his career so far, he has truly done his best to carry them out.

Again, my regrets: it is very possible that we are merely talking past each other, and of course I've already butted in quite a bit as it was. Needless to say, I mean the above merely as a respectful offering of a different viewpoint.


I think I am beginning to really hate the word "gracious"...Too many times it has been used in a way that appears to me, frankly, as a demand for hypocrisy.

About her reply, I appreciate the fact that she took the time to write this long and very civil response (unlike some others, who just condescendingly told us to get "thicker skin"). I also very much appreciate that she has written many positive things about Plushy before. Still, this time, she wrote what she wrote, in the article and in later tweets, and I don't think it makes sense to talk as if Plushy fans were the ones who misinterpreted it.


I did not intend to make Konstantin Menshov the focus of the sentence, as so many Plushenko fans apparently think.


Well, I am glad that she admitted (sort of) it wasn't suppose to be about Menshov. But the way she wrote it, the focus of the sentence was Menshov, and it wasn't about how Plushenko fans "apparently think" (implying that we're misinterpreting). Whatever she thought about Plushy at this year's Euros or whether he should have gone, it should not have anything whatsoever to do with Menshov. Period.


But yes, I do think it would have added to Plushenko’s abundant legend if he had said, “I am just too injured right now, let someone else go and I will be back.”


This last sentence, though, is rather curious to me. There's been plenty of times when Plushy didn't go to a competition due to his physical condition, and others have been able to go in his stead. But has those times added to his reputation? Frankly, what I've mostly seen on those occasions were people questioning his commitment, courage, integrity, blaming him for the loss of spots for Russia, etc., etc. Or does she mean that this business of adding to his reputation would only work if he also somehow makes a statement to the effect that "I'm stepping aside and letting someone else go because I am so injured" and therefore making himself looking "gracious" or whatever? That would be, in my opinion, what I called "demand for hypocrisy" above. If he didn't go because of his injuries--well, then it's because of his injuries. "Letting someone else go" would have nothing to do with it.

And if she wanted Plushy to talk this way, shouldn't she demand it of other skaters, too? So every time a skater decides to skip or withdraw from a competition due to injuries or whatever reasons, he or she should smile and say "I'm stepping aside and giving someone else a chance" (implicitly: "look, I'm being gracious")? The very thought is horrifying to me, frankly.

But, I don't know, I don't feel like arguing with her now. It's just kind of depressing to me, the way many people seem to think...(not about Plushy, but in general)

P. S. One more thing...So she thinks Plushy should "add to his abundant legend" by talking and not by fighting?
by whitebamboo
04 May 2013, 03:08
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Thank you for the latest news, dustman! :plush39: I confess I've been checking for updates all day.

Though I have to say, at first I google translated only the title of the news report, and I got a bad fright, because I thought that perhaps there was already an examination in Moscow as planned, and there was something wrong with the results so Evgeni has to go to Israel again. I was somewhat relieved to see in the actual report that it was because Dr. Pekarsky could not come to Moscow after all, though still worried about how it will turn out. Now I'll keep on praying... :plush47: :plush47: :plush47:
by whitebamboo
11 Jun 2013, 21:19
 
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish


I am worried. Plushy said else thing, his back is hurts, whatever he is doing. :plush27: But I do not know this is normal? The surgery was 5 months ago, it's very short time ... :-(
and the beginning of the camp he was such a good mood but on the second week we didn't see a photo when he is smiling, and didn't read cheerful report from Sarynka. :plush34:

What do you think?

Well, I'm worried too and concerned about the surgery. I mean, was the surgery indeed successful, if he still feels pain and his health condition didn't improve? :du_ma_et:

I am no medical expert, but I think once one starts training on ice seriously, especially with jumps, the physical strains are simply not comparable to what normally would be expected in daily life, so I don't know if this is really an indication about the success of the operation itself. I think a little while back, Mishin mentioned there was pain, but that it was expected. I do have to say that I am also worried; I'm praying that the pain will be alleviated, as Evgeni said that he hoped it would be. I'm also really hoping that they're able to get close monitoring by doctors who specialize in this field. If no suitable expert can be found in Russia, perhaps even some more trips to Israel?

I do think that it's clear that the whole team is very careful about Evgeni's health situation at this point. There may be very little that we can do ourselves, but at least let's keep on praying!
by whitebamboo
02 Jul 2013, 19:29
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training



Personally I do not agree with such policies and I do not understand them. A lot of other coaches have open seminaries and training sessions (Orser for example, which is not ashamed to train Fernandez or Hanyu, who are Chan's rivals). Banning Carolina or Fernandez make Mishin and Evgeni look like they were afraid of tough competition.
In my opinion skaters should attend as many training camps as they could, it is the only way to improve their skating overall.

It is the prerogative of Mishin and his team to decide whom the take on in their camps, in any given year. That is all. Nevertheless, I am not surprised that some of the less-than-friendly would try to make a big deal out of it with their talk of "Russian drama". It doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with what Orser or anyone else. It doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with being "ashamed" (of what?). It doesn't have any to do with "being afraid of tough competition", because if Evgeni were afraid, he wouldn't have tried to do what he is doing on. As he has always said over the years and many, many times over, his competition is always only with himself. Perhaps now it is true more than ever.

Orser is the coach of Hanyu and Fernandez and that's his business. Mishin isn't any top foreign skater's coach, and as far as I recall he has never been. He is Evgeni's coach, and Artur and Liza's coach, and the coach of the other young Russian skaters in his group. Of course they should come first. And while I don't know exactly how Orser (or other Canadian/U. S. coaches or anyone else) considers questions of national interests in sport, it would not be so surprising that an (old-school!) Russian such as Mishin would see them differently. Perhaps not many people in skating nowadays would think or phrase this question in terms of the word "honor", but that word is what Mishin used.

I was reading the sovsport article via Google Translate, but even from the machine-translated language, I think one can sense there is something indeed different this year, in this stage of Evgeni's journey. He's trying to do something no one has done before; this is truly "into the unknown". There is so much uncertainty, so much to overcome that I'm sure we can't even imagine. If you want to talk about being "afraid", well, maybe Evgeni and Mishin and their team are not afraid, but I sure as hell am. And it's not of Fernandez or Hanyu or Chan or any other "rival". This is why I am so grateful for the people around him at Pinzolo, not only Yana and the kids--his own family in the usual sense--but also those who love him like family: the Mishins, David, Vitaly, and all the others. I find it plenty understandable that outside top skaters, rival or not, would be the last thing they needed around, in a situation like this, which--once more--has nothing to do with "being afraid of rivals".
by whitebamboo
05 Jul 2013, 01:03
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

I don't know..I don't know... :plush34: the idea is good, but so many different musics.. :plush44: That won't be harmonious..

I had my worries about how to put it together, too, but now that I thought about it, I think I am somewhat more (cautiously) optimistic about just the "harmonious" aspect of the music...Most of the musical pieces are Edvin's, and actually stylistically, I'm starting to think that it is possible to put together. At least, I don't know that it would really be harder than say a generic "medley" program that people do.This is just from the point of view od making it sound not abrupt, of course. I am a little curious about the specific choices of pieces, though, because I thought Karen said before (on FB) something about Nijinsky and Tango Roxanne instead of Tango Amore and Adagio?

I am a bit more worried about the so-called "theme" aspect of it, that people will say it doesn't have any unity to it, or that it is "old". I think it can have a very well-unified theme, namely he himself, the road he walked on, his "great love story" with the ice. If so, then it would very much be expressing something new, different from all of the earloer programs, and not merely a patchwork. Well, this is only my own imagination again, what I might consider if I myself were to try to create the "theme" of a program like this. But I don't know if general viewers would see this, even if they actually do go for this angle. Based on the tiny amount of information so far, I wonder if we'll find that it is really a program "for fans" in a way...Perhaps people are too used to thinking of the "artistic content" of a program as distinct from the skater's owm self.

But all this is just idle speculation, anyway. We'll see....
by whitebamboo
26 Aug 2013, 14:56
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic


Actually, I think that there will not be much problem with GF and Tango, Adagio and Tosca... :mi_ga_et:

I imagine this "order" - from slow to faster: Adagio (Nijinsky?), Tosca, The Godfather, Tango Amore :-):
I assumed, there will be just a "indication" of musical themes, that will overflow each into anoother...

Come on, girls - I want a little optimism here! :plush41: :bra_vo:

People often do medley programs with three or four distinct pieces of music. Even with programs that aren't called "medley" in title, for instance using opera, musical, or movie soundtrack music, it is often actually several different pieces that do not directly follow one from another in the original source,edited together for the program. I think musically, Plushy's team seems to be mostly using Edvin's pieces, and actually in terms of musical styles, I think the pieces that have been mentions are not necessarily harder to transition from one to another than for example another "medley" program, at least just in the sense of not sounding too "abrupt". Especially if Edvin himself is doing it.

One thing I want to point out is that from what he says here, it's clear that Plushy and Mishin conceive this very much as something new, and radically new at that--not just a rehashing of the old programs.

We really don't know what it will look like yet. To be honest, I am much more worried now about what Plushy said about having another "twisted" old injury in the leg.... :plush47: :plush47:
by whitebamboo
26 Aug 2013, 18:03
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic


Personally, I find title "Best of Plushenko" very funny :hi_hi_hi: ... but it was funny to me and platinum medal - well, you know what happened then.... :plush34:

I just do not want to give any "material" to haters, that they could implanted in the brain of people this a startling phrase, which could be marks Plushy for life - that someone can say in future: " You know that skater, who awarded himself platinum medal, and devoted himself other people's music?" :kli_ny:

By my opinion, I do not think that Plushy can be compared with Bizet, Puccini and other composers, on which music he skated - "Best of" are compilations of the authors - Plushy, however, to be honest - is a performer.
That he took a completely new music, but put familiar elements and movements from old programs - then maybe, the name of the program would be OK.
So, this title as a joke is OK, as a serious idea - I think it would be, let's say, inappropriate.

Here Tatjana's "final statement", and reaction of one japanese FS expert ...

@Tatjana21:
https://twitter.com/Tatjana21/status/372288744155410432
Ok, as some people seem to freak out about it: "Best of Plushenko" is not an official program title. I used it to keep it short & sweet! :)

-----------------------

@europeonice:
@Tatjana21 since when is "Best of.." a negative? Some people really need to chill out.

@cekoni:
@europeonice @Tatjana21 since some people think that Plushenko is arrogant and "full of himself", so take every opportunity to attack him :/

@europeonice:
@cekoni @Tatjana21 Let them. His record speaks for itself.
...


I have to say I agree with Tatjana and @europeonice. Haters will try to make up ways of attacking him no matter what--including factually false and totally illogical things. If they have no "material", they'll just invent them. For instance with the "platinum medal", it was funny (and to some extent true) to people who like him or think that he should have won in Vancouver, and arrogant, etc. to people who don't like him, but in the end, the fact was that it wasn't he himself anyway. With "Best of Plushenko", according to Tatjana, he said it himself, but it's because he's talking about his skating programs. I don't think any rational person would interpret it to say that he's claiming he composed those pieces of music. Maybe haters would try to spin things that way, but one just have to counter them when one sees that, by pointing out what a ridiculous stretch of the imagination that is.

I guess, I must say I don't completely see Plushy as a "performer", in the sense that don't quite think he is like one of those actors who can completely transform themselves into someone else, "lose themselves" in the character, so to speak. Rather, I would say that he finds something within him that "meets" the idea of the program from the outside, and bring them together. I don't remember the exact quote right now, but I remember that Mishin once even compared him to Shakespeare, and he also said that what sets Plushy apart, makes him unique is "the wide range of his creativity" on ice. Of course, I only read it in translation, but I remember being struck by the fact that Mishin used the word "creativity" instead of say "expressiveness", which is how people usually talk about skaters. There is something intrinsically Plushenko in every one of his programs, even though there's also such a great range to them. To me, I don't see him as "just performing" other people's creations: he is one of the creators, too, in more than one ways. This is why I think "Best of Plushenko" is appropriate and justified.

One of the girls at our Chinese Plushy fan forum just said something really great, I hope she won't mind me quoting it here. She said that in the past, Plushy has shown Carmen, Nijinsky, Don Jose, Shakespeare, the Godfather, the history of St. Petersburg...Perhaps now he is going to finally show himself, truly and completely. I think there is an aspect of himself in all of those previous images he showed, but now there is a chance (I know it's only a hypothetical chance, since we haven't seen the program yet) that it's going to be just him and his own story, directly, and in many facets. Maybe I'm reading tea leaves too much, but now I also noticed Plushy said that he wanted the audience to see "the boy at 18, at 25, and finally now". He did not say he wanted the audience to see "the ballet god Nijinsky, then the underworld Godfather, then the seductive tango dancer". He might use pieces of all those old programs, but I think there is a subtle change of what they mean here.

You know that I have a tendency to make things up in my own mind... :-): I, too, had a lot of doubts about this, and now I still have doubts, but the more I think of it, the more this becomes, at least potentially , a stunningly poetic, exciting, and apt idea in my mind (if only in concept). That is, if he and his team can pull it off. It is also an incredibly, astoundingly risky idea; there are many big possible pitfalls. Among other things, for people who don't like him, the idea is one that will probably intrinsically anger them, simply because it would be about him . Well, I wouldn't quite call this a "pitfall". It's something that one probably can't avoid... :-)
by whitebamboo
28 Aug 2013, 16:06
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic



....
Actually, for me never been clear Mishin's metaphor with Shakespeare :ne_vi_del: - I think he could find a better comparison, for example with some Renaissance artist - Da Vinci :plush45:



If I were to interpret it, I would say that Shakespeare was both an actor (performer) and playwright (creator). One of the most famous descriptions of him was "myriad-minded"--that he created all these incredibly different and vivid characters, yet they all came out of his mind. Perhaps what Mishin meant was that with Evgeni, he also gave many (not nearly as many as Shakespeare, of course!) vivid and different images, "characters", in his different programs. He had this very wide range, but there is something that is "from him" in all of them. I think Evgeni is able to do this because he is also multi-faceted within, that he has all these different aspects within him.

So with this new LP--it's possible that one can say there is now no other character, so to speak, except Plushenko himself. He's taking off the paint and the masks, in a way--there's no longer anything else, any "character" or theme that comes from the outside (I mean like Nijinsky, the Godfather, Tosca, the spirit that was in Adagio, the spirit that was in Storm) between him and the audience. Well, again, my tendency toward wild romantic imaginings--in a way I could almost say this is somewhat of a "Shakespearean" way to end things, kind of like Prospero at the end of The Tempest, Shakespeare's last play: "this rough magic I here abjure". In the play, Prospero was talking about the illusions of his magical powers, but it is generally interpreted that Shakespeare was also speaking through him, and talking about the magic of his dramatic art. When the play is done, the star comes forward and takes a bow--as himself.

I've seen some people criticizing Mishin's aesthetic "taste", but I'm more and more feeling a personal agreement with (what little I can guess of) Mishin's aesthetic taste and understanding, and this is something I can somewhat imagine from him. It is also an incredibly-- shockingly bold solution, because it is very, very contrary to the way people are accustomed to think, especially in figure skating. Imagine, hypothetically, that something vaguely related to this is the "idea" of this program. It's Evgeni and his team's responsibility to sell it to the audience, of course, and my worry, in this case, would be that frankly I am not convinced that it is actually possible to get such notions across. There are huge obstacles.

Sorry, of course, I am not saying this is what the actual program is going to be like, or anything close to it. I am merely talking about the concept . I'm not even saying that this babbling is anything close to what Mishin and Evgeni have in mind. It's basically an abstract exercise: one way in which I imagine the very basic and vague concept of a "Best of Plushenko" program possibly could hypothetically work. There may very well be many other ways in which it can work. I guess I just want to say that I don't think the concept itself is intrinsically a bad, or a shallow one...
by whitebamboo
29 Aug 2013, 00:13
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

By the way, I don't know if it is okay to post a link to something I myself wrote, but I threw together a small preliminary essay about the idea of Evgeni's new LP, since so many skating fans seem to be skeptical or negative about it:

http://plushenkology.tumblr.com/post/59808875786/the-new-lp-in-concept-a-hypothetical-exercise

(It repeats some of the thoughts that I've been going on about in my post here the last few days. It has been really helpful to discuss things here :plush45: )
by whitebamboo
31 Aug 2013, 05:19
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

I already wanted to post this here, but maybe i forgot it: A FSU poster Cherub wrote:

"He should have a backup plan if he misses CoR. Someone said in the other forum that he needs to achieve the mininum score again. The one from 2012 is too old. He can make the Olympic score at Euros, but he needs to make the Euros score at an international. Please Plush and Mishin be on top of the rules this year..."

Who understand it? Is he right? I hope everything going well, he can skate at COR. :plush47:

If I understand things correctly, a skater needs minimum TES scores for SP and LP in order to enter top international competitions (I think European Championships, 4CC, Worlds and Olympics). These scores needs to be achieved in a previous ISU international competition either during the same season, or the one immediately before. Remember that Evgeni needed a special permit from the ISU in order to go to Sheffield? That was because he didn't have the minimum TES required, since he didn't compete in the season before (10/11), and the Euros was the first international competition for him that season. Last season, the only international competition he was in was the Euros in Zagreb (and that was OK since he had the scores from the Sheffield Euros), and I think he got enough TES for the SP, but he did not skate the LP (which has a separate requirement).

Therefore, Evgeni does not have any usable minimum TES as of right now. In order to go to Sochi, he needs to skate at least one international competition before it, in order to get the minimum TES score for the Olympics. But he cannot only do the Euros, because that itself needs its own minimum TES requirement. This is why COR (which does not require miminum TES) is needed. The minimum TES for SP and LP themselves aren't difficult to achieve (I don't remember what they are exactly this year, though), and if Evgeni's state is anywhere remotely near his normal level, it would not be a problem. If he goes to some minor competition before COR (such as Finlandia or Coupe de Nice as he suggested as possible before), that would also solve the problem, but given the state of Evgeni's injuries, it sounds like they've decided against this. So it sounds like the plan now is to go to COR and get those scores. If he misses COR somehow, that would be a problem, but I think there are still some minor competitions he can enter in an emergency, but the timing will be tight (with Russian Nationals), but frankly in that case I think his health condition would be a far greater and more fundamental worry. (All this, of course, is excluding the possibility of special permission, similarly as for Sheffield.)

So I guess, the poster was right that Evgeni and Mishin should have a back-up plan if he cannot go to COR, but I am also fairly certain that they have considered the contingencies. I don't quite understand what the poster means by "on top of the rules this year" (though I do appreciate the positive hope). It always rather confuses me why so many people seem to think that Evgeni and Mishin, who have been top professionals for so many years in figure skating, do not understand the rules...
by whitebamboo
31 Aug 2013, 05:05
 
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Re: Женя в Твиттере & ВКонтакте || Evgeni at Twitter & VKont

Someone "hacked" Plushy's account? :-)

@EvgeniPlushenko:

http://pic.twitter.com/woWUOtpyrc

It does seem to be rather unlike his usual style...(though funny). :-)

Also:


https://twitter.com/EvgeniPlushenko/status/375956395754913792
Получили чемоданы #samsonite Теперь есть с чем ехать на Олимпиаду !)pic.twitter.com/nnODpBabMj
by whitebamboo
06 Sep 2013, 19:17
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic



They want a tired fading hero instead of still vivid living warrior. This is a NA minded magazine so I do not blame them :-)

Yes, this. Oh well...I am very curious as to the actual interview with Tatjana Flade, though.

(I am slightly amused by the faux "Soviet" font in the title and the first line of the article, too. If Evgeni does make it to Sochi, I wonder how NBC will try to depict him this time... :-) )
by whitebamboo
07 Sep 2013, 16:50
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic


http://fsrussia.ru/news/691_evgenij-plyucshenko-u-menya-nazad-dorogi-net/

Евгений ПЛЮЩЕНКО: «У меня назад дороги нет»
....



I looked at this new interview with google translate, which didn't seem to get everything. I'm worried that he said there is a "slight decline", because knowing him...That can be anything. Also I again can't believe my eyes about this quad Lutz business! :plush44: Please tell me that I read wrong... Again, praying for his health. :plush47: :plush47:

I am wondering if it is possible to translate the main part of this interview? :plush39: :plush39:
by whitebamboo
08 Sep 2013, 02:38
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Алексей Мишин: именно так и должен начинаться олимпийский год!
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11329.html
....
Евгений Плющенко по рекомендации врачей был освобожден от участия в этих прокатах, он выступит на следующем смотре команды, который состоится в Москве. Евгений сейчас продолжает подготовку к олимпийскому сезону, завтра он снова выйдет на лёд в тренировочном режиме» .
:ni_zia:

Alexei Mishin:
"Plushenko by the recommendation of doctors will not skate at "Test skating" in Sochi (this weekend) , than at the following in Moscow. Evgeni now continues preparations for the Olympic season, and tomorrow he will come back to the ice of "Iceberg" arena in training mode."


I know it is probably merely because they want to be cautious at this point, but I can't help being worried...Praying for his health! :plush47: :plush47: :plush47:

I am wondering if anyone knows what is the event in Moscow, and when?
by whitebamboo
08 Sep 2013, 01:28
 
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Re: Opera On Ice - Verona, Italy 28.09.2013

I just saw these gorgeous photos of E lucevan le stelle", taken by Wilma Alberti, on tumblr:
http://icedreamland.tumblr.com/post/62730101031/evgeni-plushenko-opera-on-ice-2013

But I can't find the original album yet...
by whitebamboo
01 Oct 2013, 03:34
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic


Plushy's interview was aired during warm-up of last group Ladies SP at Skate America 2013 :plush45:

If someone have British Eurosport (Ladies SP will be tomorow in 19:00) - please, record full interview! :plush47:
http://tv.eurosport.co.uk/search.shtml?query=Figure
...


The Japanese fans are always swift of hand! :plush39:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22080414?ref=search_key_video
by whitebamboo
20 Oct 2013, 01:07
 
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