Общая дискуссия || General discussion about Evgeni

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby whitebamboo » 16 Jan 2014, 01:18

Thank you for the additions, dear Cekoni! :plush39: :plush39:

----------------------

Part 2. Plushenko's statment after the Russian Nationals LP

Of course, we know that at this RN, Plushenko skated his LP in a way was not himself. As a fan, there is no need to look for excuses, and he himself in interviews afterwards has always looked for reasons in himself and his own training. Nevertheless, it is perhaps true that the pressure upon him around this RN was perhaps far greater than what outsiders could have imagined beforehand.

The main point is that when he made that statement, he was under the false impression that Russian could now put up one skater for the team competition, and another one for the individual event, without any need for the first skater to withdraw due to injury.

a. The exact context of what Plushenko said: this was immediately after his own LP, in the mixed zone, and in reply to a question that asked him, directly, to choose:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/13875.html
- Eugene, you said that you miss the European Championship. And what a select tournament at the Olympic Games - Team or individual?
- In Europe, I did not go - in any case. And at the Olympics, I think, choose a team tournament, and a young and promising athletes give individual competitions. I argue sensibly and adequately assess all - I would rather speak to the team competition, in which the Russian team can count on gold!


b. After this, Tatjana Flade of the IFS Magazine, who is well-know and very credible, spoke to him, and found out that he was wrong about the rules.
This is the relevant part of what she wrote on FSU:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?90374-Kovtun-beat-Plushenko-at-Nat-ls-but-the-fate-of-the-Olympic-spot-has-not-been-solved&p=4087839&viewfull=1#post4087839
About the team event/individual event, he said he thought one skater can do the team and one skater can do the individual event. I explained that this is not possible. He then said he thinks he could do both events as there is enough time in between to recover. He also said it will be whatever the Federation decides and he doesn't want to comment on who should be selected for the Games.


Note: At this point, one cannot help but ask, how can such a question-and-answer arise, especially as Plushenko knew the rule clarification incorrectly.

c. Now, I want to quote the responses of Piseyev to this statement. Here is his first reaction, soon after:
http://rsport.ru/sochi2014_figure/20131225/710837477.html
"It talks about his patriotic feelings, because he wants to serve primarily not for himself but for the team, and such initiatives should be supported. I totally on his side and I think that's a fair statement," - said Piseyev phone.
"He understands that in the individual form will be much more competitors than in the command - added Piseyev.


d. But a little later, Piseyev gave a different response:
http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014_figure/20131225/710866070.html
(just to mention, the reporter who wrote this was Andrei Simonenko, one of the participants of the Twitter conversation shown in Part 1 above)
" Not all athletes know exactly the rules. Eugene said it on emotions - Piseyev said in a conversation with reporters . - Yes, Plushenko wants to participate in the Olympic Games , team competitions are held for the first time , he wants to speak to them. All that will happen will be depend on his health . "


e. And finally, Piseyev's third reaction, on Dec. 26, and perhaps the most blatant one:
http://izvestia.ru/news/563281#ixzz2oZnYlqa2
- Indeed , the prospects are not very promising Eugene , because the light of recent unsuccessful performances Russian figure skaters at the tournament from our country can be declared only one party - told " Izvestia" CEO Russian Figure Skating Federation Valentin Piseyev . - In any case, despite the statements of Plushenko , I would not finally put an end to his ability to perform in Sochi.
...
- If you do not perform in Eugene individual tournament , he will still remain chances to participate in the team competition - said Piseyev . - This may Occur if an athlete , acting individually, receive damage. This will allow for a substitution in the composition.

(my bold here, if I understand the translation correctly)

At this point, perhaps one can form some educated guesses about what Piseyev wanted from Plushenko, if he wanted to compete in Sochi.

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby whitebamboo » 16 Jan 2014, 01:23

Part 3: On the European Championships

We don't have as much information about the European Championships, and there are contradictions among them. I hope that one day things will be clearer. For now, I will just list what were said.

a. The first hint that Plushenko would not go to the Euros was actually not from his side, but from Kovtun's coach, Elena Buryanova, in this interview between the SP and the LP:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/13828.html
- How do you feel about gossip that Plushenko can not go to the European Championship?
- This is a private matter of each athlete. Especially such as Eugene. He decides where he wants to go. This is absolutely normal. As a coach, I assumed that he would not go to Europe. It is logical.


b. Even Mishin did not want to sound so certain at that point. Again, after the SP:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/13821.html
- Will Jack participate in the European Championship?
- We'll make a decision, take counsel with the Figure Skating Federation, the Ministry of Sports.


c. Now Plushenko, in the same response to the question quoted about in 2a above, said that he was not going to the Euros. Again, this was immediately after his LP. I want to remind people that at that moment, he was still under the incorrect understanding of the rule clarification.

d. However, the following report of the press conference, soon after:
http://www.figureskating-online.com/russian-nationals.html
The 31-year-old noted that he didn’t plan to go to Europeans, but might reconsider now.


e. But in the same reaction quoted above in 2d, Piseyev confirms that Plushenko is not going to the Euros (this is before the coaches' council meeting that would determine the Euros team):
In this Piseev confirmed that at the European Championships Plushenko will not act. "At the European Championships him, I believe, do nothing. He just may not have enough forces," - said General Director FFKKR.


Note: Now, it is understandable that if Plushenko had won RN, he might skip the Euros. But even if this were their plans, given the situation, I would have thought that the normal response of those not on his team would be to expect him and Mishin to reconsider the situation, and to wait for their final decision. Why is Piseyev so quick to decide whether Plushenko will have "enough forces" to do well at Euros?

g. And then, the list for the Euros came out, Plushenko's name was not on it. This was after the coaches' council meeting on the morning of the 27th. This is what Mishin said, that Plushenko was "released" from participation at the Euros at his own request:
http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/671451
- Do you agree with this decision? Do you think it's right?
- Yes, I think it is absolutely correct. This decision was made at my request. The Board agreed with my arguments that the preparations for the season started late, now we will work to increase endurance, making long test skatings, primarily Free.


h. However, even after the list had appeared without him, later that day at the awards ceremony, in front of a large number of Russian media (including television), he said that he "did not rule out" going to the Euros:
Video:
http://www.1tv.ru/news/sport/249279
And quoting the following report:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/13949.html
- What will happen next ? - Asked Evgeni Plushenko . - We will continue to prepare - it is possible that even the European Championships .
- Why change your mind ? Indeed, after rolling , you said that will not go to Hungary under any circumstances .
- In fact , I just went to the gym today , and evaluate their strength , I thought , why not try to prepare for the European Championships ? Why not laminate once again , do check yourself and your program? So now start to prepare , see how it goes and make a decision later (smiles).


g. Nevertheless, of course the list by that time was already decided upon. Another interview on Plushenko's part a little later that night:
http://www.echomsk.spb.ru/projects/intervyu-na-ehe-moskvy/prosto-sam-otkazals.html
I find this quote interesting, when he was asked about this issue:
I do not take something that is not - I just relinquished the European Championship.


Here, one cannot seem to say much with certainty about the decision not to go to Euros, given the contradictions in the information. However, it does seem that the decision was made before RN, and that it was not an "impulsive" statement after the LP on Plushenko's part, as some Russian media suggest. Afterwards, it seems that at least some reconsideration was made on his part. I very much hope that one day, more about this situation will be made public.

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby whitebamboo » 16 Jan 2014, 01:29

Part 4. Plushenko's position

From the first three parts, perhaps an idea of Plushenko's current situation can be deduced. And in this situation, here is what he has said.

a. Firstly, I again refer to Tatjana Flade's post, quoted in 2b above. I will quote again a part of it:
I explained that this is not possible. He then said he thinks he could do both events as there is enough time in between to recover.


As soon as he learned the truth about the rule clarification, he put the idea of skating only the team competition out of his mind.

b. He reiterates his intention to skate both the team and the individual events, if chosen, when asked about it in this Dec. 27 interview: [url]
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/671546[/url]
- I tuned ride and team and individual tournament . Do not worry , stand ! I happened in the finals of the Grand Prix ride and two programs per day , there was a time when we rolled three programs , and two of them - in one day. And nothing , you know.


c. And in this much-reported interview on Jan. 9, once more, he repeats the same intention:
http://itar-tass.com/opinions/interviews/1877
- Are you afraid that the Figure Skating Federation of Russia simply won't give you the Olympic spot?
— I'm not afraid. Moreover, I am going to take part not only in the Team event but in the individual competitions as well.


The full English translation of this interview is here:
http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=81768#p81768

Note: The main point is this: as soon as he learned the truth, Plushenko immediately and categorically rejected the plan of him skating only the team competition. He has maintained the same position consistently ever since. Please, consider this in the context of what I have quoted above, especially in the context of Piseyev's words quoted in 2e.

d. This interview from Jan. 9 was much reported, such as the in the following AFP article:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/20692561/russia-figure-skater-plushenko-changes-mind-demands-sochi-place/
Note the title: Russia figure skater Plushenko changes mind, demands Sochi place
In the first sentence, it claims that Plushenko "has done an about-turn", which as should be clear from 4a, 4b, and 4c above, is false.

Another factually false statement from this AFP article:
International Skating Union (ISU) regulations state clearly that each country's winner of the Olympic qualification tournament-- in this case the Russian national championships -- should represent the country at the Games.


For anyone remotely familiar with figure skating, there needs to be no comment on this statement.

e. A reaction to Plushenko's interview from Tatiana Tarasova:
[url]http://доверенныелица.рф/moskva/person/tatyana-tarasova-anatolevna/tatyana-tarasova-maksim-kovtun-budet-uchastvovat-v[/url]
At the recent Russian national championship in figure skating, the results of which formed the national team in the sport, the Olympic champion Evgeni Plushenko of Turin took second place. This means that the only permit that was in Russia in the men's figure skating, went not to him but to the young Maxim Kovtun, winning the Russian championship. However, two weeks after the championship Evgeni Plushenko announced his possible participation in the Olympic Games in Sochi.

Please compare with 4d above. Now, finally, I will say something that is my own opinion: I do not believe for a second that Tarasova is unaware of what Plushenko has said and not said since the Russian Nationals. I believe that she knows perfectly well the fact that he had never for a instant suggested that he would give up on Sochi, in any way, shape, or form.

f. Finally, one more thing. It has been decided that Plushenko will have a special "test skate" in Novogorsk near Moscow, on Jan. 21, with only him skating, and only FFKKR's expert panel in attendence:
http://itar-tass.com/sport/880495
This is what Mishin had to say about it:
I can not say, whether it will be open to all. But the "show" in this case is unacceptable. However, I'm not against it, that people can see his skating.

Mishin is not afraid of this test skate to be seen by the public. However, Piseyev said it will be a closed test:
General Director of Russian Federation of figure skating Valentin Piseev said that "control skating" will be closed, it will be only for the "expert group".
Last edited by whitebamboo on 16 Jan 2014, 05:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby whitebamboo » 16 Jan 2014, 01:43

These are some things I've gathered together...Again, by no means complete, but a picture emerges. Now I want to say a little more of my own feelings--though maybe not all fans will agree with me. I want to give another quote from Plushenko's Jan. 9 interview:
The question who will defend the honor of Russia at the Olympics in Sochi is the prerogative of the President of the Figure Skating Federation of Russia Aleksandr Gorshkov and the General Director Valentin Piseyev.


That's the phrase he used. "Defend the honor of Russia".

The plan of Tarasova and Piseyev--if it comes true--will bring dishonor on Russia. And it has nothing to do with how Plushenko or Kovtun may skate. The Olympics are not like other competitions. The athletes swear an oath at the opening ceremony to abide by the rules, to commit themselves "for the glory of sport and the honor of our teams". And by this, it means not only the letter of the rules, but the spirit as well. The eyes of the world will be focused on Sochi, and on Russia. For a Russian athlete--especially Evgeni Plushenko, a symbol of Russian figure skating--to withdraw after the team event, pretending to some convenient injury, so that another skater can be switched in, taking advantage of the rules: this would be a scandal.

I am not Russian and I cannot truly gauge how the Russian public is thinking now. However, I also know that the country has put a great deal of investment and hopes in these upcoming Winter Olympics. In the latest opinion poll, 78% of Russians polled said that they will watch the Olympics, and 9% named Evgeni Plushenko as their "face of Sochi", the one whom they anticipate the most. What will these ordinary Russians think if the plan comes real, when Plushenko would be branded a coward, and Russia a cheater?

I know that Plushenko and his team cannot speak about this now. But they don't have to. The originators of the plan have said enough themselves. They have incriminated themselves plenty. Very briefly, they might have trapped him into their scheme through their falsehoods, but he took his stand against them as soon as he learned the truth.

I know that a lot of Plushenko fans have been worried, maybe confused, in the past weeks. I know I have been. But putting these links and quotes together, I found myself gaining spirit. I am posting this because I'm a Plushenko fan, but now I think, maybe it isn't just about him anymore, but also about those 9% of Russians, more generally, those 78%.

That's a lot of people and these are big words, but I will be audacious. Now I think they deserve to know. I think they should know.

I think the Russian public deserves, and has a right to know. It has a right to know who put their small selfish interests ahead of the country, and who remained loyal and steadfast in the face of adversity. He has already defended Russia's honor, and in doing so, he put his dream of standing once more on Olympic ice at risk. This is a dream for which he has fought, suffered, and tortured himself these past four years. To defend the nation's honor, one must possess it in one's self.

Evgeni Plushenko is, truly, Russia's treasure and hero. I hope this fact will be fully acknowledged--at Sochi.

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby Вера » 16 Jan 2014, 08:43

whitebamboo wrote:I think the Russian public deserves, and has a right to know. It has a right to know who put their small selfish interests ahead of the country, and who remained loyal and steadfast in the face of adversity. He has already defended Russia's honor, and in doing so, he put his dream of standing once more on Olympic ice at risk. This is a dream for which he has fought, suffered, and tortured himself these past four years. To defend the nation's honor, one must possess it in one's self.

Evgeni Plushenko is, truly, Russia's treasure and hero. I hope this fact will be fully acknowledged--at Sochi.

Спасибо, whitebamboo, за эти слова от всех русских :plush40: plush48 Я даже попробую перевести.

Я думаю, что русская публика заслуживает и имеет право знать. Она имеет право знать, кто положил свои маленькие корыстные интересы выше страны, а кто остался верен и тверд перед лицом невзгод. Он уже защищал честь России и при этом, стоя еще раз на Олимпийском льду, он подверг свою мечту опасности. Это мечта, за которую он боролся, страдал, и истязал себя эти последние четыре года.Чтобы защитить честь нации, надо иметь ее в самом себя. Евгений Плющенко - это, действительно, сокровище и герой России. Я надеюсь, что этот факт будет полностью признал - в Сочи.

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Re: Дискуссия || Discussion

Postby whitebamboo » 18 Jan 2014, 20:32

cekoni wrote:
whitebamboo wrote:...
Part 1. Plans to switch skaters between the team and individual competitions at Sochi

...
a. Tatiana Tarasova interview, Oct. 5:
http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014_figure/20131005/691805015.html
Most of the interview, on the surface, was in support of Plushenko, saying that as long as his health permits, his participation in Sochi is "out of question". But in the last paragraph, she mentioned her own student Kovtun:
And maybe to participate in the Olympics , because not yet responded - maybe one will play the same program , and the other - on the other. Regulation is not prohibited , but still do not have permission to do so " - said Tarasova .

...

Yes, TAT mentioned this few times in more interviews - she even be "offended", when someone had asked her how this is possible, she said: "Do not you worry about it, I should know more!"
TAT repeated this almost whole october and part of november.... when I think more now about it :du_ma_et: - when she found out that it cant be - she changed the tone of speech and start to pushing Kovtun :plush34:


I have been thinking about what you tell me a little more...Yes, indeed. After Plushy lost the LP at the Russian Nationals, I think what Piseyev's said in reaction to Plushy's words suggest that they thought they had succeeded. But after Plushy made it clear, after he learned about the real rules, that he would not be part of their game, Tarasova changed her tune.

whitebamboo wrote:...
d. Immediately, the following conversation on Twitter arose (Nov. 19) among the following sport journalists in Russia.
...
https://twitter.com/David_Nowak1/status/402828515789139969
....

Not just this - those Russian journalists were first, which "informed" at twitter western journalists about the rumors - Nick Zaccardi, Philip Hersh and others.... only then began to appear articles in the west press - as it is Plushy's idea or "secret deal" Russ.Skat.Federation with him, even before Plushy said anything about it...
If I remember correctly - western journalist mentioned some mail, which was regading this sent to ISU? :plush38: (again about "Plushy's case") :kli_ny:
Also, even and president of the American skating Federation was talking about it.... :ps_ih:


P.S. obvious example, how much damage (to Russian skating, in general), just in 2 months can to produce suddenly awakened unsatiated the desire for quick success one "ambitious" coach :ze_le_ny:


Yes, the mention of the "email" was in Zaccardi's Dec. 26 article.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that what makes me angriest about their scheme is that I believe they wanted to make it look like what Plushy himself wanted. They spread false rumors ahead of time, when the FFKKR was seeking that "rule modification" from the ISU. Of course, we don't know anything about that email, but the way Zaccardi said it (of course, we are also not sure of how much he heard), I even wonder they falsely used Plushy's name when talking to the ISU.

And if one looks at Piseyev's reaction to Plushy's words from Dec. 26 (item 2e in my next post), when he talks openly about Plushy skating only the team competition, he said that this would be possible "if an athlete , acting individually, receive damage". In other words, it is their plan, but they wanted to push the responsibility and the blame onto Evgeni if it actually comes true.

And if you look at another statement of Piseyev's (item 2c below) after Plushy's words: "he understands that in the individual form will be much more competitors than in the command ". I can guess at what they will say if Plushy does what they wanted and withdraws after the team competition at Sochi. They are going to say that it is because Plushy does not have enough courage to fight with Hanyu and Chan and the other competitors in the individual competition, and therefore he just wanted to gain another medal, the team one, on the strength of the other Russian competitors like V/T and Julia, etc...They want to absolve themselves of all blame, hide the fact that it was their plan, and push the scandal onto Plushy's shoulders. The false rumors they spread ahead of time would set up for it.

This is what makes me more furious, the more I think about it. It's even more than them scheming to take the Olympic spot using underhanded means. They wanted to ruin his name and honor in order to do it: it was part of their plan. It disgusts me.

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby Вера » 02 May 2014, 12:01

И немного русского языка на этом форуме. plush48

Сезон давно закончен, а ведь не дает покоя ягудинцам вопрос - а за что мы так любим Плющенко? Странный вопрос.

Спасибо всем кто ответил на это в некоем блоге - "Больше ответов, чем вопросов". :plush46: Всех, кто ответил этим непонятливым гражданам - люблю! :plush40:

30 апреля 22:37
Дмитрий Фролов
Евгений может хоть в трико выйти и под скрипку Мартона , и от этого его катание хуже не станет, он танцует на льду,творит, привлекает публику своей энергетикой,харизмой, удивительное чувство музыки, красивые прыжки, отточенные движения, грандиозная пластика

1 мая 14:10
delletante1
Ответ на комментарий пользователя Ann83
Вы знаете, лучше Браунинга не скажет за него никто :
" — Как вам Плющенко?

- Думаю, что я видел что-то удивительное. На наших глазах творилась история, и я рад, что мы стали свидетелями этого! Канадец Рейнольдс прыгнул три четверных, японец Матида тоже был очень хорош, но Евгений… Он ведь фактически еще из моего поколения! Если вы спросите мое мнение об оценках — из-за того, что он делает для спорта, для страны, что он привносит в фигурное катание — полагаю, с учетом всех этих факторов оценки оказались столь высоки. Плющенко, конечно, уникален, и буквально только что в телетрансляции я сказал на всю Канаду, что я не хочу говорить о том, что он сделал — только о том, что он сделал! Я снимаю шляпу! Но если вы спросите, соревновался ли он здесь с остальными, мой ответ: «Нет». Здесь он соревновался и соревнуется только с собой. И он знает это. Я впечатлен!"

2 мая 00:20
gau10@mail.ru
Ответ на комментарий пользователя Елена Топорина
Елена! Диалог - это самое лучшее, что можно представить для общения. У меня вопрос, ПОЧЕМУ у многих такое негативное отношение к Плющенко? Он, что фигурист, который получил свои медали незаслуженно? благодаря особому, лояльному отношению судей, как некоторые лидеры ФК последних лет? У кого-то есть сомнения, что Плющенко показывает максимально возможный технический уровень? Артистичность и "растворение" в музыке - это те качества, которые заставляют зрителей во всем мире поклоняться таланту Жени. Я это видела своими глазами в Германии и Чехии. Женя может одним движением руки передать столько чувств и эмоций, что другим и не снилось. Я недавно посмотрела показательный номер Ягудина в последнем шоу Авербуха и пришла в ужас от того, что этого фигуриста пытаются поставить в один ряд с Плющенко. По качеству и количеству исполняемых прыжков, конечно, там можно что-то считать (и то - в былые времена Ягудина), но по уровню мастерства и артистизма - это личности разного масштаба! Мне всегда хотелось спросить тех, кто так яростно ненавидит Женю: Вы видели его живьем? Неужели, вы не почувствовали мощь его энергетики, его жизнелюбия, позитива? Неужели вам не импонирует его откровенность, честность, бесхитростность в общении с болельщиками? Женя нам, болельщикам, рассказывает ВСЕ! Без "купюр"! Лично мне, эта откровенность и искренность Жени очень дорога. Такому спортсмену верю. Такого - уважаю и поддерживаю. И выводы делаю для себя, что таким искренним, как Плющенко, сложно жить в этом мире. Еще и поэтому - буду его всегда поддерживать.

1 мая 02:14
Горный хрусталь
Ответ на комментарий пользователя Юлена
Допустим, балетной пластикой могут похвастаться очень немногие фигуристы. Причём, те фигуристы, которых отличает пластичность (Сандю, Вейр, Ламбьель, Кренстон Толлер и др.), обычно уступали в технике. Не будем забывать, гибкому фигуристу значительно труднее даются прыжки. Плющенко удалось соединить сложную технику, артистизм и балетную пластику. В какой-то степени, в этом плане к нему удалось приблизится Ламбьелю. Что касается конкурентоспособности, то Евгению удаётся её сохранять в течение длительного времени, а это удавалось тоже очень небольшому числу одиночников. Именно это выделяет его из массы других фигуристов. И опять же ни одно из перечисленных качеств не является уникальным само по себе. Уникальным является именно гармоничное сочетание всех этих качеств в Плющенко.

1 мая 20:56
gau10@mail.ru
Уважаемая Елена! Я никогда себя не называла и не называю фанаткой Евгения Плющенко - я поклонница его таланта - Спортсмена и Артиста на льду. Фанатизм предполагает бездумное поклонение идолу. Плющенко, для меня, - эталон отношения к своему любимому делу, эталон искренности, воли, мастерства и артистизма. Есть фигуристы, которые умеют лучше исполнять сложные многооборотные прыжки? Есть, конечно. Я бы еще вспомнила Александра Абта - красавец, который умел с легкостью исполнять мощные высокие прыжки. Костя Меньшов - мастер исполнения сложнейших прыжков, но...... на тренировках, по большей части. Артисты на льду? Ооооо! Такахаси, Ламбьель, Урманов..... Мастера конька? ЧАН!!!! Ханю! Чудо- мальчик! Умеет все! Будет ли он способен, на протяжении стольких лет, как Женя, быть лидером мирового ФК? Посмотрим. Можно перечислять фамилии и фамилии достойнейших спортсменов-фигуристов - кумиров разных лет, но такого фигуриста, как Плющенко, нет ни в одной стране - того, кто умеет все: и держать стадионы в напряжении и восторге, и быть стабильным на соревнованиях, и быть технически вооруженным на самом высоком уровне! И это - на протяжении стольких лет!!!! Есть ли еще в мире спортсмены- фигуристы, которые бы РЕАЛЬНО могли бороться за медали самой высокой пробы на протяжении четырех Олимпийских циклов? Нет таких! И это многих раздражает и бесит. И вынуждает выискивать в Плющенко всяческие недостатки и отрицательные качества. И у Плющенко - эти качества - есть, как и у любого другого человека, спортсмена, фигуриста. Но у Плющенко все это перекрывается и перевешивается способностью ПОБЕЖДАТЬ в нужное время, в нужном месте! Это и есть - ТАЛАНТ! Пусть кто-то попробует так же! - завоевать четыре Олимпийские медали!
А все остальное - нравится - не нравится - дело вкуса! Я видела Женю живьем не один раз. Считаю, что это были для меня счастливые минуты, как любительницы ФК! Женя - НАСТОЯЩИЙ. ИСКРЕННИЙ, МАСТЕР СВОЕГО ДЕЛА! Кому-то не нравится? Не смотрите! Но охаивать и шельмовать Великого, без преувеличения, Спортсмена - не справедливо! ( мягко сказано!) Мне тоже, как некоторым "воинствующим эстетам", хотелось бы для Жени более качественных постановок, соответствующих его таланту, но мои желания и представления не могут умалить достоинств фигуриста Плющенко. Будьте справедливы, люди! Женя принес столько радости и гордости за наше Фигурное Катание, что стыдно копать и выискивать в его достоинствах "темные пятна"!

30 апреля 21:56
Горный хрусталь
Объясняю популярно: потому что Плющенко - двукратный Олимпийский чемпион и двукратный серебряный призёр ОИ. Если бы в Ванкувере было честным судейство, то он был бы сейчас трёхкратным Олимпийским чемпионом.
Что касается его уникальности, то у него балетная пластика, он необыкновенно артистичен, умеет удержать внимание зала. У Плющенко изумительные дорожки шагов. Даже сейчас, когда его рассвет как фигуриста далеко позади, он по-прежнему конкурентоспособен. На Олимпиаде в Сочи он, например, обыграл будущего серебряного призёра Патрика Чана. В 1997 году, в 14 лет, Плющенко выиграл юниорский чемпионат мира в Южной Корее, став самым молодым чемпионом за всю историю фигурного катания. Плющенко, дебютировав в 1998 на взрослом ЧМ, сразу выиграл бронзовую медаль, став самым юным призёром взрослых чемпионатов мира (ему тогда было 15 лет). Евгений Плющенко стал первым в истории фигуристом, показавшим комбинацию четверной тулуп — тройной тулуп — тройной риттбергер (2002), первым среди мужчин выполнил вращение бильманн, каскад тройной аксель-ойлер — тройной флип (2001). Первым попробовал исполнить во время соревнований один из сложнейших четверных прыжков — лутц (2001). Впервые исполнил сложное вращение — "кольцо Плющенко".
И посмотрите это видео, освежите свою память, сравните прыжки Плющенко и Стойко.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERny2YinRdI
А ещё у Плющенко есть много очень интересных программ, от которых дух захватывает. Одна "Памяти Нижинского" чего стоит. А "Pasadena"? По части креатива Плющенко ни в чём не уступает Вейру и Канделоро.

1 мая 02:40
Горный хрусталь
Ответ на комментарий пользователя Ann83
Его прыжки отличались и лёгкостью и мощью. Лёгкость - это когда прыжок исполняется без видимых усилий. Мощь - это энергия, отдаваемая фигуристом исполнению. А потом, как вы себе представляете четвертной прыжок без мощных усилий? Этот прыжок требует от фигуриста очень много сил и энергии. Просто никто этих усилий со стороны Евгения не видит, когда он выполняет четвертной. Кажется, что прыжок даётся ему легко, играючи. Но это лишь видимость, в то время как энергия, исходящая от него при исполнении программы, ощущается всеми зрителями, она передаётся им.

1 мая 16:29
Darina2
Всё-таки прыжковая техника Плющенко - это предмет восхищения многих.
http://www.japanskates.com/interviews/N ... iew_en.htm
Нобунари Ода: "Я всегда восхищаюсь, когда вижу его тройной аксель: "О, боже.".... Я видел все четверные тулупы Плющенко на сегодня. ... Все сделаны с одинаковым расчётом! Перед отрывом ... он никогда не ждёт!"
evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/viewtopic.php
Курт Браунинг: У меня есть что-то общее с Евгением Плющенко. Мне хотелось бы, чтобы это был тройной аксель, или чтобы мы оба носили расчески..
Ещё помню, что Мао Асада говорила, что Плющенко прыгает тройной аксель просто для развлечения. Ну, или то, что Патрик Чан разучивал четверной, не в последнюю очередь, по видео Плющенко.

И ответ-победитель, на мой взгляд :co_ol:
1 мая 21:50
Джен
Ответ на комментарий пользователя Tatacro
Женя - мужик, потому что
он прыгает четверные даже в 31 год с пластиковым диском в позвоночнике,
у него четыре олимпийские медали,
он с детства содержит семью,
у него двое сыновей,
он увёл жену у миллиардера,
его любят дети и собаки,
он отлично водит машину, гоняет на мотоциклах, играет в гольф,
у него много государственных наград и международных премий
он киллер - на льду,
он угрожает семье Ягудина, и Ягудин его боится :hi_hi_hi:
(последний пункт - шутка, основанная на записи Ягудина в твиттере))))
http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/supe ... witterfeed

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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby cekoni » 02 May 2014, 15:22

Вера wrote:И немного русского языка на этом форуме. plush48

Сезон давно закончен, а ведь не дает покоя ягудинцам вопрос - а за что мы так любим Плющенко? Странный вопрос.

Спасибо всем кто ответил на это в некоем блоге - "Больше ответов, чем вопросов". :plush46: Всех, кто ответил этим непонятливым гражданам - люблю! :plush40:
....
http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/supe ... witterfeed

You missed my message there :)-(:

.... anyway, some people become bigger Plu haters - than fans of their "origin" idols (other skaters) :-)
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Re: Общая дискуссия о Жене || General discussion about Evgen

Postby Karina » 02 May 2014, 21:09

Lol, those people who dedicate more time to hating Zhenya than supporting their own favourite skaters... Just boggles the mind. :kli_ny: There are plenty of skaters I don't like but I don't care if other people like them. I guess Zhenya is someone that can't be ignored. :-)

It was really interesting to read all the comments (even with Google translate--which thinks "half-loop" means "oiler" :sh_ok: ) He is forever the Vancouver Olympic champion in my heart. And he is both technician and artist, no matter what narratives have been made up post-2010. Some of the comments are a bit... strange... (kinda unfair to compare young Plush with aging, past-his-prime Stojko, who was a good skater in his own right), but for the most part they really expressed the reasons to love him.

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Re: Общая дискуссия || General discussion about Evgeni

Postby whitebamboo » 11 Jun 2014, 04:59

Sorry in advance about this...I know it has been a long while, and Sochi is firmly in the past, but I just wanted to still make an addendum to this post. For the record, just in case it's needed again, perhaps. (In part because it seems to me that perhaps certain wrong impressions are still around.) I actually started to work on this after Sochi, but it really took me a very long time...

1. First, I only recently remembered this interview of Evgeni's, it is from Aug. 26 of 2013, before Tarasova and FFKKR officials started to suggest the possibility of having two different skaters for the team and the individual competitions:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11164.html
About the fact that Russia has only one men's singles spot, and the team vs. individual competition, he said this:

- Do you consider in your preparation that at the Olympic Games in Sochi, except for individual competitions will be more team tournament? Russia is entitled to only a single sculler.
- Of course, take into account. Instead of two starts in Sochi will be - four. For nine days. This is a serious burden. If the recovery goes well, I can do, and four rental, and more. But if for some reason I feel that I will not pull - will report this in advance, and then in Sochi will be the youth.


I wanted to put this quote here because it adds some context to Evgeni's statement about only skating the team competition at the RN in Dec. 2013, based on his mistaken understanding at the time, that it was possible without involving withdrawal due to injury. This earlier interview from August shows that he definitely did know the original rules correctly. So when he had the mistaken knowledge later, it can only refer to the "rule clarification" that the FFKKR was trying to obtain before the RN (approximately between October and December).

2. People probably know all about this, but I'll put it here too. On Jan. 18, after Kovtun's 5th place performance (the score was 232.37) at the Euros, Tarasova immediately turned around, and said that Plushenko should be the one to go to Sochi:
http://www.sovsport.ru/sochi/texts/text-item/676848

For athletes around the world will be an honor to speak at a single Olympics with Yevgeny Plushenko . Moreover , I believe he did not have any rentals not need anyone to show up . If he's healthy, and we all take such a decision : to put it on the home Olympics as a man of his country , no one dares not put it .


In another news report from the same day, Tarasova said:
Why Plushenko rental ? If he is healthy , then let decorate my performance the national team at the Olympics and it will bear the banner . He does not need no car . He outlawed and out of competition. That's all , "- said in a telephone conversation Tarasova told" R-Sport . "


I refer to the previous parts of this post for Tarasova's position right before the European Championships. This is an 180-degree turn for her, and it came before Evgeni's test skate on Jan. 21 (three days after the European Championships Men's LP).

3. After Sochi, Yana gave an interview (to a very hostile reporter), which appeared on Feb. 28. In the interview, she answered a question about what Evgeni said after the Russian Nationals LP:
http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/dud/ ... ext=yandex

- It's your original plan was: go to the Olympics, to act as a team, and then removed?
- Of course not.

- Plushenko unveiled the plan in December.
- Went to a story that Russia want to make two trips. Not until the end of the rules were clear: Is it possible to do a replacement without injury. As a result, ISU explained possible or not, at the last moment - in Sochi on the Russian championship. Eugene reads nothing, so he explained, in December, he heard that there is replacement option, but did not know the details. That said this to reporters. Later we were told: change is possible only in the case of fresh - it is fresh, and not a new injury. And it should not take notes, our doctors, and doctors IOC.


This is in agreement with what we already know. I think this is the first time someone from Plushenko’s side “officially” talked about his mistaken impression at the time. I will only say that I do wonder if there were still some things Yana left unsaid: for instance how the news of the “replacement option” was passed on to him. As we’ve seen, the FFKKR definitely knew what the “replacement option” was about right from the start, and I would say it was not exactly a “detail”. (See 1b, 1c in the earlier part of this thread. I actually also remember an interview of Tarasova’s from around the same time, in which she spoke in a similar way as Piseyev.)

4. And finally, here is the actual “rule clarification” from the ISU, Communication 1844:
http://static.isu.org/media/129144/1844 ... nt-owg.pdf
The important thing is the last paragraph of Section 2:
For entries related to individual Figure Skating events (Pair Skating, Men, Ice Dance, Ladies) it is possible to make athletes replacements only up to and during the Team Leaders meeting for the Figure Skating (individual) events scheduled for 10.00 a.m. on February 10th, 2014, for the same circumstances as mentioned above (injury and/or sickness).


Recall that the team event ended on the night of Feb. 9. We all already know this, of course, but many general skating fans do not, so I thought I would also record the link here. The time window for replacement was a very brief one. When Evgeni’s conditions worsened during the training before the individual event, replacement was already impossible.

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