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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby lala630312 » 27 Apr 2012, 18:37

Mishin didn't say, that the work was exciting and useful and they finished the work with Camerlengo. Because this was enough, or Camerlengo hasn't more time or something. And Plushy said to Irina, he won't say anything to Camerlengo, he wants to listen what suggests Camerlengo.
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby Kudryavka » 27 Apr 2012, 18:55

I know I have to wait to see how the thing is going. But I'm wondering if Camerlengo understood the possibility that Plushy may use only pieces of Camerlengo's works :plush34:
He didn't compete for three years, but as soon as I saw him, I knew that there was a true Olympic Champion on the ice. - Takahiko Kozuka, Rostelecom Cup 2009
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby cekoni » 27 Apr 2012, 19:20

Kudryavka wrote:I know I have to wait to see how the thing is going. But I'm wondering if Camerlengo understood the possibility that Plushy may use only pieces of Camerlengo's works :plush34:

Plushy is not beginner and unknown skater - and even such skaters, have rigths (with their trainers) to use, or not use, advices and suggestions of hired choreographers :mi_ga_et:

In any case - Plushy works on his choreo throughout whole the season, and changes it from the competitions to competitions :a_g_a:
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby lilywang » 27 Apr 2012, 19:53

I don't understand why pin the hope of Plushy's future competition on one choreographer, whether Camerlengo, or DW, or anyone else. Plushy knows what he is doing, if he wants to hire someone just as a consultant and get whatever he needs from them, it's fine with me.

Honestly I don't like the trend in figure skating where just a handful choreographers monopolize all the programs. I want to see diversity, I want to see skaters skate the programs that they are passionate about, not the programs that manufactured based on standard PCS production line.

I like David's Tango Roxanne very much, I would have no problem if Plushy wants to continue skate to David's program. He has been competing for so long, it is hard to stay motivated in the game. He has earned the right to skate the program that he likes, the program that he wants us to see.

Honestly my worst nightmare would be all three Mishin students, ET, Authur, and Plush skate to programs from the same choreographer, be it DW or Camerlengo or LN. That would be the day of industrialized mass production of figure skating.

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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby clairdelalune » 27 Apr 2012, 23:56

:kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny:

Sometimes I wonder if people really understands that Euros, Worlds, Olympics are sports competition with rules! It sounds like PLushy were a sort of political dissident not a competitive athlete who competes with other athlets for medals, in official competitions. :plush34:
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby lovplush » 28 Apr 2012, 00:28

clairdelalune wrote::kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny:

Sometimes I wonder if people really understands that Euros, Worlds, Olympics are sports competition with rules! It sounds like PLushy were a sort of political dissident not a competitive athlete who competes with other athlets for medals, in official competitions. :plush34:


Plushy is a very competitive athlet, no doubt of that. It is the rules that got bended because of the politics. :)-(:
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby cekoni » 28 Apr 2012, 00:52

clairdelalune wrote::kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny:

Sometimes I wonder if people really understands that Euros, Worlds, Olympics are sports competition with rules! It sounds like PLushy were a sort of political dissident not a competitive athlete who competes with other athlets for medals, in official competitions. :plush34:

In an ideal world, by the ideal rules :plush22: ... maybe in heaven? :-)

So, you think that Chan really deserves its PCS's? :)-(:
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby lilywang » 28 Apr 2012, 01:58

I think we have to understand that Plushy is human, not a machine to switch on and off, switch to "DW" mode, or "Camerlengo" mode. He grew up in the 6.0 era and has strong personal style, no choreographer can change him into another person given two weeks or even two months of work. He is going to be Plushenko.

At this stage of his career, he first needs to stay healthy and stay motivated to compete. Having a program that he can relate to is important. I don't know what it would be like if he skated other choreographer's program last season, but I do know that he skated to 'Tango Roxanne' with that particular intensive emotion and playfulness, that he skated to gold, a personal best, and most importantly, a standing ovation from a raptured audience in that arena. What more can we ask for, and what more can a skater achieve? :ne_vi_del:


On a not so related note, nowadays a lot of the programs seem so contrived, in a shout-in-your-face "look how CoP friendly I am here!" way, there is no spontaneity, everything feels staged and clinically scrubbed. :plush34:

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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby cekoni » 28 Apr 2012, 04:58

cekoni wrote:
Ирина wrote: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120427/593826912.html

Хореографу Плющенко дали российскую визу только по настоянию Мишина
....

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20120427/173088314.html

Plushenko’s Coach Pulls Strings for Choreographer
...

:du_ma_et: Carefully read the Russian original, I came to the conclusion that Camerlengo anyway should be in Russia only two days - problem was only way of obtaining a visa, and that Mishin had to intervene. :a_g_a:

Here's something that has not been translated in english version of article...
....
Short time period of together working Plushenko and Camerlengo, Mishin explained with the specific characteristics in the making of programs the Russian figure skaters.

"Music is our, also is half of our movements. The fact is that we have a slightly different way of programming, compared with many foreign athletes. There exists a separation of money - an athlete can not simultaneously take a lesson and from a coach, and from choreographer. Therefore, skater goes to choreographer and returned with the finished program. Then begin to train it. Here (in Russia), in preparation of programs are involved the triple Alliance - an athlete, coach and choreographer."
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

Postby whitebamboo » 28 Apr 2012, 05:18

clairdelalune wrote::kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny:

Sometimes I wonder if people really understands that Euros, Worlds, Olympics are sports competition with rules! It sounds like PLushy were a sort of political dissident not a competitive athlete who competes with other athlets for medals, in official competitions. :plush34:


I am sorry, but I do not think it is right to suggest other fans don't understand the most basic facts about Evgeni Plushenko's situation, just because they care about him in ways that are more than just about his victories and medals. To say that other fans "don't see him as a competitive athlete", simply because they don't see one particular choreographer or another as the be-all-and-end-all of everything: this seems to me to be a fairly extreme misrepresentation. It makes no sense to me to characterize the situation (for any skater) as a choice between skating programs choreographed by one of a few "approved" choreographers vs. being a "political dissident", and I also have to say that I think other Plushenko fans deserve more respect than this.

And I want to say that I'm not trying to be offensive toward you, but honestly, I think it should be plenty obvious that Evgeni and his team has always been consummate professionals who understand the rules better than random people (fans or otherwise) sitting behind computers and posting on FS forums. After all these years, and especially after this past season, I should have thought that it is quite completely proven. I understand that we all are fans of him for different reasons, but for myself, at this point to believe otherwise--the only reason I can imagine for it is if one actually considers him--I am sorry to be quite blunt--stupid. And well, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if some people on FSU or GS would think this way, but at least for myself, I cannot imagine myself being a fan of anyone whom I believe to be stupid. So frankly, it is a little hard for me to understand why a fan would think that Evgeni and his team would not make decisions to the best of their abilities and according to their needs, convictions, and situation, or that they themselves know better.

But more importantly, I simply don't get why this is an issue at all. For one thing, if one actually reads the news report, one can see that Mishin was saying they were "excited" to work with Camerlengo. So once again, what on earth is the problem?

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